tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7089029.post4661023514049469887..comments2023-10-15T07:32:34.706-05:00Comments on Watersblogged Archives: ELCA makes it official: people (maybe everybody!) might be saved without faith in ChristRobert Elart Watershttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18182251436190781481noreply@blogger.comBlogger3125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7089029.post-28505210742564330122009-12-02T12:25:58.225-06:002009-12-02T12:25:58.225-06:00I remember a discussion with a seminary classmatw ...I remember a discussion with a seminary classmatw who maintained that only those who are told about Christ and then reject Him are lost. At least that would be an improvement over the Bratten and Jensen bilge that we were taught in systematics class (for the uninitiated, universalists Carl Braaten and Richard Jensen are the authors of what has been the standard systematics textbook at ELCA seminaries since before the merger in 1988).<br /><br />Of course, if my classmate were correct, the Great Commission would read, <i>"Shhhhh!"</i><br /><br />In any event, the significance of this lapse should not be missed. ELCAns are very big on stressing that the Gospel, in the narrow sense- i.e., the doctrine of justification- is not only the doctrine by which the Church stands or falls, but really the sum total of the Faith. Well, the notion that one can remain in open rebellion against God and rank unbelief where Christ is concerned and still be saved is a rejection precisely of the Gospel in the narrow sense. <br /><br />The ELCA as such is now formally, as well as implicitly, in error precisely on the doctrine of justification. It has, by its own test, defined itself out of the Church catholic.<br /><br />Mike, I remember those silly conferences up at St. Olaf where Braaten and Jensen and all those other supposed opponents of official ELCA apostasy would get us all excited and hopeful that there was a constituency for genuine reform in the ELCA. It was after hearing Braaten bring down the house with a ringing condemnation of the cult of political correctness that I read a newspaper interview in which he explicitly reaffirmed his own universalism.<br /><br />When I told one of my older parishioners that the man who had given that speech had now given that interview, she was silent for a moment, and then asked, "Has he had a stroke?"Robert Elart Watershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18182251436190781481noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7089029.post-18997088087504897722009-12-01T23:13:53.845-06:002009-12-01T23:13:53.845-06:00It also become obvious that Braaten and Jensen hav...It also become obvious that Braaten and Jensen have done their part in moving toward this heretical stance, despite being lionized as Evangelical Catholic defenders of the faith. I doubt there will be much discussion of this after Scripture and the witness of 2000 years of Christian teaching on sexuality were thrown overboard. The CWA decision was simply an expression of the ***A's inherent apostacy.Pomeranushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10788099139283548601noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7089029.post-64848900929294327402009-12-01T12:34:10.689-06:002009-12-01T12:34:10.689-06:00The ELCA should just close up shop and save the mo...The ELCA should just close up shop and save the money. Why bother evangelizing if people are saved outside Christ's word?Dan @ Necessary Roughnesshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14815354600299927976noreply@blogger.com